Have you ever heard of Carolyn McCulley? Carolyn is an Evangelical commentator who recently wrote a book entitled Did I Kiss Marriage Goodbye? She also attends the same church where the reputable Evangelical author Joshua Harris preaches. At Carolyn’s website there is a quote from another woman writer, Elisabeth Elliot, that is noteworthy:
“Everywhere my husband and I go we meet lovely Christian women, beautifully dressed, deeply spiritual, thoroughly feminine–and single. They long for marriage and children. But what is it with the men? Are they blind to feminine pulchritude, deaf to God’s call, numb to natural desire? . . . Where are the holy men of God willing to shoulder the full responsibility of manhood, to take the risks and make the sacrifices of courting and winning a wife, marrying her and fathering children in obedience to the command to be fruitful? While the Church has been blessed by men willing to remain single for the sake of the Kingdom (and I do not regard lightly such men who are seriously called), isn’t it obvious that God calls most men to marriage? By not marrying, those whom He calls are disobeying Him, and thus are denying the women He meant for them to marry the privileges of being wife and mother.”
Well, this is a serious charge for someone to be making against religious men. It’s not the first time the charge has been made and it will probably not be the last. Because of its serious nature (accusing men of being disobedient to God), it merits an answer. Here’s the short answer: You are way off base, Mrs. Elliot (as is Ms. McCulley and many others). Why do you and so many other religious pundits wonder aloud about the spirituality of single Christian men? I expect anti-male sexism from feminists, but that it also comes from many so-called “Bible-Believing” religious leaders is mind-blowing. It’s utterly scandalous and a reproach to the name of Jesus. Let’s get a few things straight about the Anti-Bachelor Marriage Craze currently infecting some pundits, shall we?
It’s Not in the Bible
First of all, and most importantly, the idea that God mandates most people to marry (pronuptialism) is a blatantly unscriptural idea. I have already dealt with the exegetical weaknesses behind this doctrine (see the essays “Does God Expect Most Men to Get Married?” and “How the Marriage Movement Misuses 1 Corinthians, Chapter Seven“). Ladies and gentlemen, you can drop James Dobson, Joshua Harris, Albert Mohler, Debbie Maken, every single one of your favorite Evangelical authors, and even John Calvin himself on one end of the scales and the Bible on the other. The Bible wins hands down, every single time. I don’t care how popular someone is. If their exegesis is off, then they aren’t speaking as the oracles of God (1 Peter 4:11).
It’s Not a Harmless Doctrine
Secondly, I do not believe the doctrine of pronuptialism is a harmless doctrine. I think it has the potential for making a shipwreck of people’s faith. For one thing, imagine a young soul being told he has no control over his sexual desires and therefore he has to marry (a notion based on a popular misreading of 1 Corinthians 7:2, 7:8-9). The problem is that he hasn’t won the obligatory popularity contest with the opposite sex. He remains single and frustrated. He gets angry at God because he assumes his Creator has given him an appetite that he can neither check nor lawfully sate. Robbed of any confidence he might have in controlling himself, he reasons, “I can’t help my feelings therefore I am going to do something illicit.”
Then there is another young man who looks at the onerous burden of marriage, all of the obligatory social expectations, the fallout from failed unions, etc. and shies away from matrimony. But here come the religious leaders to point their fingers at this young man and shame him for his choices. So, he gets bitter and drops out of church, or he ill-advisedly enters into marriage out of obligation to a social custom (not because he has any substantive feelings for his wife). The seeds of an unhappy marriage are thus sown. In short, the idea that most people have no choice but to marry needs to have a spear driven through it Phineas-style.
God created marriage as a gift, not as a requirement. It’s true that human beings were made with reproductive organs, but God gave us mastery over our desires. Thus, it can be said that marriage was made for man but not man for marriage. Evangelicals, like the Pharisees who became legalistic about the Sabbath, have gone overboard with their pro-marriage agenda, falling into a pit of absurdity. The kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom, not a physical one. We are not under the Old Covenant of Israel anymore, therefore God’s kingdom is not preserved by family lineage (Matthew 3:9; Luke 8:20-21; Luke 12:51-53). That is, the kingdom increases by sharing the Gospel (Matthew 27:19; Romans 1:16-17; James 1:18), not by making babies and filling padded pews with third-generation parishioners. And what if no one gets married and has children? Gasp! Well, do you think the “game of love” is going to go on forever (Psalm 102:25-26; 2 Peter 3:10-13; Mark 12:25)?
Why Men Aren’t Stepping Up (Like Sheep to the Slaughter)
Why do people keeping ignoring the 300-pound gorillas in the room? Are the pundits clued in to the real reasons why religious men are refusing to marry? For any Christian ladies reading this, let me offer some possible reasons …
Money
It takes money to raise a family, Sherlock. We are not in Kansas anymore, and we don’t grow our own food. Many Christian women expect to stay home, have a brood of children, and yet live quite comfortably. Where do they get the idea that God will necessarily bless us with creature comforts? Don’t parrot the line, “God will provide.” I don’t need the sham promise of a materialistic, prosperity theology. Shall we suppose that godliness is an automatic “means of gain” (1 Timothy 6:3-11)? What on earth are some Christian women thinking? That every Christian man has a shot at a cushy, middle management job in some Silicon Valley outfit?
Let me direct your gaze to the social pyramid that stands before you, ladies. Where is the middle class? Yeah, it’s shrinking isn’t it? Carolyn McCulley points to some guy as the model of what male “servant-leadership looks like in a godly home.” No he isn’t a model. The guy in question has a comfortable position in the upper echelons of our corrupt, bloated government. Forgive me for being blunt, but Carolyn and all her middle-class, yuppie cohorts on the Evangelical writer circuit need to come down to earth where many of us live with low-paying jobs, increased costs of living, and other stressors in our daily lives.
What do the religious pundits expect rank and file men to do? Barely live from paycheck to paycheck just so we have the luxury–yes I said luxury (Luke 12:15; Luke 14:26; 1 Corinthians 7:29-31)–of having a housewife and three kids? Is that the message they preach from the lecterns of their comfortable, posh megachurches? Yep, go ahead and bind heavy burdens on religious men, but refuse to lift a finger to help them. Where have we seen this before (Matthew 23:4)?
Arrogance about Sex Roles
We hear about how men need to take the lead in relationships, need to fill the roll of “the provider,” etc. We read that women should pick men who are “physically, mentally, and spiritually” stronger than they are (Jaye Martin, “The Marks of a Godly Husband,” The Tie, Winter 2005, pg. 17). Hmm. Let’s consider those attributes, shall we? I wonder what happens when a man gets a disability and his wife has to care for him. Does he cease being a man since he is no longer physically strong? What about mental strength? I guess a college-educated woman has to pass up a man with a high school education, even though he’s wonderful in every other way. And spiritual strength? We are all called to be mature in Christ, but don’t tell Jaye Martin that.
Seriously, are we using the same Bible? Where is all of this stuff about “Biblical Manhood” spelled out in the New Testament, the spiritual law under which Christians live (Hebrews 8:1-13)? Let’s see … do you want to sling 1 Timothy 5:8 at me, for instance? That passage is not talking about male breadwinners. The original language, grammar, and context point to those of either sex needing to take care of family members in need. That so many self-appointed experts on “Biblical manhood” rip this and other passages out of context is utterly astounding.
Anyway, if Christian women are so adamant about following traditional roles, why don’t they stay at home with their parents, learn how to cook, clean, etc., instead of going to work and competing with men for scare jobs in a tight job market? I think I know the answer. So many “conservative” women have jumped aboard the neo-traditionalist bandwagon. Do you think I exaggerate? Willard Harley, a popular author among many Evangelicals describes the type of man that women supposedly find “irresistible”:
“He assumes the responsibility to house, feed, and clothe the family. If his income is insufficient to provide essential support, he resolves the problem by upgrading his skills to increase his salary. He does not work long hours, keeping himself from his wife and family, but is able to provide necessary support by working a forty to forty-five-hour week. While he encourages his wife to pursue a career, he does not depend on her salary for family living expenses.”
Ah yes. What’s yours is yours. What’s mine is yours. Here’s the kicker: I know that many of you ladies don’t want to really go back to the time of your grandmothers and have your opportunities limited. You don’t want to make the kind of sacrifices in your personal lives that many women in the past had to make. Yet you want us men to live by the old codes of chivalry. You want to make us lie down in the mire, while you step on our backs to get inside the carriage that summarily rides away from us. You want to have your cake and eat it, too. Bottom line: Your neo-traditionalism is a sick joke, a pathetic double-standard.
Moreover, your views on “Biblical manhood” and romantic relationships are just as unrealistic and demeaning as all the airbrushed, photoshopped images put out by Playboy. In your marriages, you expect some sort of Superman who will make all of the hard decisions for you, read your mind, and somehow arrive at the choices you would pick. He will be emotionally strong, never have any fears, doubts, uncertainties, vulnerabilities, weakness, or (gasp) needs. The husband you want is not human. Indeed, I wonder why so many marriages in the Evangelical community end in divorce. You ladies need to get your head out of your Christian romance novels and deal with life.
Who is the Real Shallow One?
Speaking of romance novels–ladies, do you believe us men are the shallower sex? Yes, we are the ones that supposedly don’t accept you because you are morbidly obese. Cry me a river. You want to excoriate us for our physical preferences in women, even thought it’s pretty much proven that men are visually attracted to the opposite sex. Well God made us this way. A lot of young women used to die in childbirth before modern medicine. Did you think God thought it expedient for us to seek out women who don’t physically take care of themselves? Well, at least the answer to this question never got in the way of you seeking out someone taller or “physically stronger” (How many times have I read that your dream man “must be athletic”?). These attributes, while acceptable, have nothing to do with the character of a man. So, why aren’t you accused of being shallow and “hung up on looks”?
And what about judging us by the amount of money we make? I haven’t heard a sermon on how women need to stop objectifying men in this way, lately. Have you? Again, you compete with us for our jobs, but you refuse to marry us when we make less money than you (because your concept of “Biblical manhood” rests on the size of our paycheck, of all things). Then you wonder where all the men are at the end of day. Surprise, surprise. You priced yourselves out of the market, sweeties.
Sex – Yes I Said The Word!
Not too long ago, Stephen Arterburn and two other men wrote a book entitled Every Man’s Battle : Winning the War on Sexual Temptation One Victory at a Time. In essence, the book portrays men as wanton beasts and women as passive victims of male lechery (although one Amazon.com review entitled, “A Mixed Bag” has some shocking things to say about the “fairer sex”). This is not the first time men have been harangued for there sexual behavior. Everywhere, Christian men are confronted by the same unflattering stereotypes: Male sexuality is so suspicious. It is so dangerous. People need to rein all our sons and brothers in with stern, Biblical teaching. Really?
Who demeans sex? Is it the male philander? The man who gawks at physically attractive women? What about the wife who uses it for her own ambitions!? Yes, I typed that. It is sad to know that there are religious women who are so conniving in this regard. Ladies, let me inform you of something: Sex isn’t just about having children. Is marriage just the means of getting a trophy husband and trophy children so you could be among the Martha Stewart glitterati at church? Some of you probably want children for the same reason girls go overboard and collect dolls. Human beings in this case just become pawns to boost your ego. Alas, the desire to be a mother isn’t always noble (especially when men get treated as nothing more than glorified sperm donors).
Also, some of you see sex as something to be rationed out for a husband’s good behavior. If he mows the lawn on Thursday, you’ll passively allow yourself to be used on Friday. Utterly sad. Sex is what two married people who love each other do for the sheer intrinsic worth of it (Proverbs 5:18-19; 1 Corinthians 7:2-5). In the Good Book, it says the two shall become one flesh (Matthew 19:4-5). It’s that simple. That means if he wants you to dress up in exotic sleepwear and play Sex Queen from the Planet Venus, then you better drop the hang-ups from your childhood (which are probably the result of listening to too many sermons from old, cornpone preachers). And if you can’t do that, make an appointment with a counselor. It’s your turn to start being “understanding” of “your partner’s needs.”
Oh by way, single men can live without sex. It is ridiculous that so many religious pundits are utterly schizophrenic about male sexuality. Look, either we have the power of self-control or we don’t. Which way is it?? If we don’t have the power of self-control, no one can blame us for being like a bunch of sex-crazed farm animals that seek out porn, prostitution, and whatever else to sate our immediate desires. If, on the other hand, we do have the power of self-control (which I believe we do), then don’t try to frighten us into marriage by saying most people aren’t gifted to handle singleness. And stop your evil surmising about single men.
Even at a young age, some of us are seasoned enough to see through the sham pearls of physical beauty and charm. Ladies, when you smile and fluff your hair, we can just give ourselves peace of mind by looking the other way. We know what physically attracts us, but we are not obligated to pursue it.
If all else were equal, then sexual desire would be a compelling enough motivation to seek out female companionship. But else isn’t equal. There are so many other variables that have bearing upon a man’s physical, mental, and spiritual well-being when considering the company of women.
We are Not Your Whipping Boys
Some of you are really like the feminists deep down side. For you, it’s women good, men bad. If something goes wrong in your lives, well, it must be because of something men did or failed to do. Too many churches and ministries have sold out to the spirit of male-bashing. For instance, we have Promise Keepers to keep men on the straight and narrow, but where are the football stadiums full of women promising to be better wives and mothers? Are you women so infallible? Are you so untainted from the ungodliness in this culture?
Men have beaten down too much. We are told that we are insensitive; then we are told we are being too wimpy. We are too told that we need to be industrious and ambitious; then we are old that we work too much and don’t pay enough attention to our families. We were shamed for our desires for women; and now we are shamed for not desiring women. We are getting sick and tired of the blame game.
Why do religious pundits push this nonsense? Is it because of the fact that mostly women fill the pews and someone doesn’t want to offend the core audience? I hazard to guess which sex consults most of the books and media put out by the “relationship experts.” Who wants to bite the hand that feeds them? Really, this all looks like a replay of what the Apostle Paul complained about in 2 Timothy 3:6-7.
Women Behaving Badly
Men are beginning to understand that having relationships with women is a high-risk activity of uncertain benefit. Which sex initiates the most no-fault divorces? Which sex often gets bankrupted by court-ordered alimony and child support settlements of astronomical proportions? Which sex gets custody of the children most of the time? Which sex is often the target of false charges of spousal abuse (even though many studies prove that both sexes initiate spousal abuse at comparable rates)? Who often gets removed from their property and thrown in jail merely because of an unproven allegation by the other spouse? Which sex is often forced to pay child support for offspring who are not even related to the one paying that support? Simply put, the family laws on the books are decidedly stacked against men.
Courting among a religious group is no protection for a man, either. Christian women can break up families just like their secular counterparts. Divorce statistics among Evangelicals are scandalous. Too many churches have a lax attitude towards the practice of divorce and serial monogamy. So, where are the cries of reform from the marriage mafia?
But that’s not all. So many of you ladies used to chase the “bad boys” and the guys who were exciting and attractive by the world’s standards (or even by the church’s standards) but who weren’t really spiritual. In your youth, you snubbed many of us who dreamed of being married to a godly woman. Now the chickens have come home to roost. Your biological clocks are ticking. All of a sudden, Christian men that were formerly invisible to you somehow have the responsibility to line up and submit a job application to you for the position of Hubby. Give. Me. A. Break.
It’s All About You, Snookums
In short, too many conservative women have only cared about restricting sex, shaming bachelors into marriage, shaming men into old restrictive sex roles, and pretty much preserving the sex cartel and system of male wage slavery. Being a responsible husband to one of these women would be nice if they (a) stopped playing the hypocrite with regard to honoring traditional sex roles (e.g., they compete with us for our jobs, but they still expect us to make more than them); (b) realized that Corporate America no longer pays hubby well for the financing of their Cinderella dreams; (c) stopped treating us like walking ATMs; (d) realized that sex isn’t just for having children; (e) realized sex is something to be enjoyed, not something to be rationed out only when men perform certain tasks; (f) repented of putting down men; (g) repented of their crypto-feminism; and (h) appreciated what Men’s Rights Activists fight for. The ugly truth no one wants to face is this: Religious and politically conservative women in English-speaking countries have, in many cases, imbibed the sentiments of female entitlement, professional victimhood, and anti-male sexism found in the larger culture. So, it’s not enough to be just anti-feminist. You must be for men. You are either with us or against us, ladies. If you are not fully with us, stay out of lives, so that we can stay free from the leaven of your self-centeredness and malice.
Conclusion
Now what will be the reaction to what I said just far? Forget about the threats and shaming tactics, ladies. Too many women dismiss men’s problems with the attitude that we should “stop being so bitter,” “stop whining,” “get over it,” “show initiative,” “keep trying,” and “suck it up.” Women who voice these sentiments tell us all we need to know about them. As long as everything is going well in their little world, they don’t care about what’s going on in ours. If these women are not willing to listen to our concerns before we marry them, they are probably not willing to do so afterwards. They have nothing to offer us in the way of emotional support.
Ladies, stop and consider: Wanting you is not the same as needing you. That many of you wrap so much of your expectations into the institution of marriage is pathetic. You treat it as some sort of spiritual nirvana that will provide the answers to just about all of life’s problems. But for many of us men, God has carried us thus far through loneliness, social ostracization, and unrequited desire. He is able of carrying us much further (Philippians 4:11-13; 1 Timothy 6:6). He gives us a genuine choice about pursuing marriage (1 Corinthians 7:37-38). We can find our happiness and self-worth without you.
As for the religious pundits that speak soothing things into the ears of women, I call all religious men to stand up and recognize these spin doctors for the spiritual Philistines that they are. I hope that us men will turn against the ungodly ministries of these people and check their influence. Our worth as men is God-given, not derived from fulfilling some religious chick’s dreams.
Amen brother. Listening to these people is like going back in time to the 1950’s. They think America is still the same country it was then when this kind of crap was pushed all the time, you know getting the “American Dream”.
They think the pursuit of this dream is noble when it’s not. Look where it lead us. It has bankrupted our country, It has lead us to rampant immorality everywhere and a 50% divorce rate in their own churches(which they never address)along with rampant immorality practiced within Evangelical circles.
They need to clean up their own Churches before going out to a world declaring “follow our rules, we know best”. I would say, they have utterly failed and should be ignored. Look to the Bible for your authority, not these man-made doctrines made to keep these people flowing in money from writing books and articles.
How many of these women indoctrinated by our greedy materialistic culture are looking for a man making 25,000 a year? Go do a article on that Mrs. Elliot? I’m sure Albert Mohler in all his wisdom would say we need to be more ambitious for our women and pursue a 1950’s goal of the house, little white picket fence, 2 cars…you know the leave it to beaver lie. What a bunch of schmucks these people are. No wonder The mainline churches are emptying out these days. All that is preached in these churches is mumbo jumbo.
What they need to do is get out there and try to change our country for Christ instead of looking for a meal ticket. The culture is not getting any better while these people go on and on about an America that doesn’t exist anymore and probably never coming back. Call the country back to repentence, don’t just sit like like a bunch of morons talking about a world that doesnt exist anymore. Call this country back to the bible, not church dogma.
Its about bringing people to Christ, not following a dream that has failed us. It’s not all about pursuing worldly goals of health, wealth, and prosperity and play the yuppie lie of happiness.
My goals are simply to go further and further away from this culture. The further the better. The closer you get to this culture, the more you’ll end up spiritually dead. The Church is filled with our culture, I see no difference in them then in the world. They pursue the same goals. I think these days, if one really wants to seek the Lord, they need to get away as fast as they can from these mainline Churches.
Thanks for your passion, it’s nice to know there is such a thing left in the church these days. Every Church I step into are a bunch of Republicans pursuing “your best life now”. I think all the mainline big names in Evangelical circles have lost all credibility with their selling out to man made goals and parties instead of calling America back to the bible and repentence and also cleaning up their own mess in their Churches.
Did they ever stop to think that the reason God is not blessing their message with results is because he will not use them until they clean up their own mess from inside and get back to real Christianity?
One last thing, yes men have been deeply damaged by this culture, but so have women. What world do these people live in? Are they really so closed in their homeschooled suburbs that they have lost all contact with what the hell is going on in real America? They think they can look down very smug over our culture and declare that men and lack of marriage are our problems? My dear Lord….
NOT EVERY WIDOW FEELS THAT WAY…. COMPANION, AND HELP MATE. NOT A BIG HOUSE, FANCY CAR, OR A FIT GUY. LOVE…… SORRY SOME WOMEN HAVE MADE THIS ONE GY BITTER ABOUT MARRIAGE.
I agree with much of what you said in this article.
I think that there are hypocracies and double standards on both sides of the table.
I think the ’shallow’ attitudes come from shallow people not primarily men or women. For every woman who judges a man by the diameter of his wallet there is a man who judges a woman by the diameter of her hips. For every woman who looks at men only as potential candisates for the office of ’spermdonor and wallet in chief’ there is a man who sees women only for what they can give rather than as people. For every man who sees women as trophies or hags there is a woman who sees a man as only either a stong brute or a weak wimp.
I think that society trains us to think this way on many levels.
It teaches us to see ourselves as ‘real’ and others as constructs devoted to doing things for us – giving us things, performing services, making us look good and etc.
Its schitzophrenic attitudes train women to expect to be totally self sufficient and competitive but also to want to be utterly helpless and taken care of -
these things are not mutually exclusivein a well balanced person, but I believe society trains us to feel that they are.
Becuase of this instead of a woman feeling that she can be independant and strong and self sufficent and still be feminine and whole, she often feels that she should be somehow ashamed of these qualities.
Because of this training people feel that a person must adhere to specific ’stigmata’ of beauty which the culture attempts to impose on all people to be considered attractive instead of evaluating them on their own terms and in honest aesthetic evaluation.
i.e. lips must be a certain shape and color, hair a certain texture and color, the waist a certain size, the breasts a certain size – if these wouldn’t actually fit into the physique and physiology of that person? Who cares!?! You are beautiful if you wear the ‘flag’ of beauty and ugly if you do not.
So many people who have aesthetically unpleasing features are popularly considered beautiful, that I am beginning to think that people have been trained to see beauty as a collection of *symbols* which have been intellectually linked with beauty rather than a genually pleasing appearance.
We are taught constantly (both men and women) that we are not allowed to be content with our own innate natures and personalities, and must instead invent new ones based on the dictates of society. Unfortunately, the dictates of society are frankly contradictory, and many people just have not learned to pick and choose while at the same time being to their own selves true.
PS. I have a bit of an allergic reaction to the use of the word ‘feminist’ to automatically mean soemthing negative. I am a feminst and d-mn proud of it.
double PS. Not all women are interested in this whole cycle of BS either.
I agree with your post 100% and I am a woman who was happily married for a long time to a man who was very much traditional. After I lost my husband six years ago, I am now ready to start dating again. Marriage is a bad thing for lots of men and women who are unhappy with the way things are. I read over Carolyn McCulley’s site and found that she takes great liberties with the scriptures.
Her “Biblical” definition of femininity and marriage are based on a very “creative” interpretation of certain passages in the Gospels. I fear Carolyn is creating a cult of Christian singleness. She seems proud to keep herself and other Christian women from dating. I’ve written to her and asked her about her policy of never dating people outside the church. She never replied. This is troubling to me, because if she is “spiritually guiding” single women who are desperate for dates, she needs to give them a dose of reality with reassurance in their faith.
She should be telling women if they want to marry, they should expect to continue working while being traditional at home. She should also drop this “nobody outside the faith” provision of her personal rules. I married a Hindu man and through me his entire family converted to Christianity. If I had followed Carolyn McCulley’s rules, I could have never married him!
I do like how you ended your article with saying not all women are interested in this “whole cycle of BS”. Lots of us aren’t interested in feminism or using a man as a meal ticket. We are just like good men, we want a companion, a lover and a friend. Women like Gloria Steinem made wanting this a crime; women like Carolyn McCulley made wanting it a sin.
Great article man
Great article man
Carolyn is full of it. She has associated herself with well off people in her church. Many of them are affirmative action hires or cronys in government or big business. These are NOT Christian couples.
Why Carolyn wants a husband is beyond me. She is full of self-righteousness and is quick to condemn very good and Godly people who don’t believe EXACTLY as she does. She has little to offer a husband besides constant hard right-wing religious preaching and a potato-shaped body.
Read her site and fall over laughing. She believes firmly in sexless lives for Christian women. Many of her readers are in their late 30s, 40s and 50s. None of them have ever known sex. Most of them only date with chaperones present and feel that falling in love is more like falling into sin.
In other words, Carolyn is on the vanguard of Christian Feminism. In the opinion of most Christian people, she is working to keep women alone, working to condemn good Christian men, and building a “cult of Christian singleness”.
Pathetic.
I stumbled across your blog while I was in the process of doing some online research. This is an excellent discussion of marriage and raises some quite valid and thought provoking ideas, such as that marriage is by no means a requirement according to Scripture.
Very sobering article. Many men, like myself, have sat back and observed the rampant corruption in Christianity, as evidenced by the women and pastors who profess to believe in Jesus. I’m sorry, but it was just too much for me to stomach. I have abandoned women and Christianity, and am now a very happy and guilt-free Deist, the religion of our founding fathers.
Quick! Someone should go tell John R. W. Stott, one of the foremost thinking Christians in the world, that he is living in sin! He is not now married…nor has he ever been. I guess in Elisabeth Eliot’s view this makes him a damnable sinner. Shame on you, John! How dare you preach great sermons, write amazing books like “The Cross of Christ,” and travel the world proclaiming the gospel. Repent immediately!
This is the most hurt and bitterness I have heard all in one place. Jesus is a God of peace and healing. I don’t know exactly where all the feathers got ruffled. The church is doing a horrible job in this age with singles and divorced, but they are trying. But the utter bitterness and woundedness is each our personal issue to be dealt with and healed, not bludgeoned onto the world.
Let people think what they will, and give your anger in an understanding, forgiving and capable God, who is not synonomous with church and frail humnan beings. DO YOU HATE WOMEN, My own father I believe was bitter with his mother and we suffered the brunt of his anger and disillusionment. Parents are all failures to some extent. That is why I’m not one. (ha).
We are all longing for love, and there isn’t much of it flowing these days.
We all get angry, but peace to you all. There is no lasting satisfaction except for in Christ our creator. And I’m having trouble seeing that about now also. BUT HATE IS A CANCER, AND A HEALTH DESTROYER.
Vent, but then find your peace.
oh, I forgot to mention that the love of my life left me after 12 years, for someone else. So I know pain. He also is looking for love.
All I ever hear these days is theological debate. My family gets together and talks about the “evils of Halloween”, and how bad the world is. For goodness sake, isn’t there something in scripture that says, Avoid endless controversy. THERE ARE BIGGER FISH TO FRY PEOPLE.
There are alot of clueless people running the helm of churches. I personally dislike church intensly. People don’t know how to have a good time and be light. Everything is heavy heavy heavy. Expectation Expectation. If christians are leaving church in record number, how do we expect unbelievers to want to go.
Where is the Grace of Jesus. His yoke is easy and his burden is light. So let these heady high minded people in glass houses have their agendas. MY BIBLE SAYS, IF YOU DON’T HAVE LOVE, YOU HAVE NOTHING. And I am lacking like the next fellow.
WHAT WE NEED IS A LITTLE RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE. AND PATIENCE!!!!!! Not comprimize mind you but peace loving tolerance. And what makes the big wigs think that they have the answer to our problem. It’s God and God alone when all is said and done. Life is a lonely painful personal journey. THE ONLY ONE THAT TRULY UNDERSTANDS OUR PAIN IS YOU KNOW WHO.
I was recently called a liberal by my family, and I am so not. You can find more unconditional love in a room of drunks than you can in the church. Oh they suck you in with a little love, but then their true side comes out. ANGRY PEOPLE EXIST EVERYWHERE. And sometimes I’m angry, and human also. I pray to find a little sunshine in these cloudy days.
What is happening is long overdue. Christian men are finally becoming aware of what a scam marraige has become…for men. They are also starting to realize that Christian women are really not much different than non-Christian women. In fact, they are no different at all. They nag, complain, grow obese, collect untold amounts of cellulite, over-spend, criticize their husbands, become irrational, frigid, rude and nasty, they commit adultery with other men and increasingly with other women, divorce at the same rate as non-Christian women and for even more frivolous reasons…the list is endless. Oh, and did I say they nag?
Christian men need to wake up to the fact that if they get married, all of their beliefs in Jesus, and all of their prayers are not going to change a rebellious woman. Like it or not, Jesus just isn’t going to come to the rescue if you find yourself trapped in a marraige with a typical woman. You got yourself into it, so…….The point is, Jesus isn’t going to pay your child support or alimony, and he isn’t going to change your wife. You’re on your own if you foolishly tie the noose, er, knot.
Pastors NEVER preach about Paul telling men that they are better off staying single. Paul wasn’t an idiot; he knew what women were like. Why else would he have remained single? Because of some “special gift” of singleness? I’ve got news for you; every man has the “gift of singleness”. Unfortunately, we live in an immoral society that constantly hammers at men that they need women. Nonsense. A man needs a woman like a bicycle needs a fish.
Men need to ponder the fact that celibacy is indeed a superior state to be in. To be free of sexual obsession is like being let out of jail. To be able to look at women in general and laugh gives joy to the soul. To not allow women into your heart, mind, soul or pants is a higher way of living, regardless of what Dr. Mohler might say.
A woman is a spiritual, emotional and financial drain on a man. She slowly rots a man to the core. She is a rottenness in his bones. Are there exceptions? Ecclesiastes chapter seven says NO! There are NO upright women, and I tend to agree. Christian men need to remove the rose-colored glasses, and see women- ALL WOMEN- for what they are. Proverbs 31 describes the ideal woman, but what Christians tend to ignore is that it also says WHO CAN FIND HER? It’s stating clearly that this is the type of woman that would bring you happiness, but it also tells you that you aren’t likely to find her. Christians miss the point of Proverbs 31. It wasn’t exactly telling men what to look for in a woman. It was showing you that unless a woman IS like what is described there, she will make a man miserable. It was to serve as a way of protecting men from the legions of harpies that would seperate a man from God. Sadly, the churches are full of women of this type, and nothing else.
There may have been a time when a man could marry and endure the burden of a wife for a lifetime. Those days are gone. The feminists have succeeded in making marraige obsolete- for men. Women have outlived their usefulness, and really serve no purpose any more. They make lousy mothers for the most part (think abortion, infanticide and Parental Alienation Syndrome) and they make even worse wives.
Men need to start enjoying the beautiful gift of life that God has given us, and stop wasting precious time indulging their lusts on creatures that fully intend to make their lives a living hell.
You might have a valid point regarding celibacy however the delivery was filled with such bitterness that I am not sure of your motive for the arguement. Also, you assume all women are the same. You paint us to be gold digging leaches. Untrue.
It’s not a matter of bitterness. Even if it was- so what? Rebellious women have virtually destroyed family life in the west. They have slaughtered children through abortion by the tens of millions. They have ruined their homes, and destroyed their husbands, both financially and emotionally. The children they didn’t butcher through abortion, they have ruined by removing the fathers from the home.
Bitter? You betcha’. It’s long overdue. If you think >I’m< bitter, ponder what God must be feeling right about now. Ah, yes.
God.
Ponder his history of dealing with those who are hopelessly evil and rebellious. The flood. Sodom. Various and sundry exterminations.
Then ponder women. A more miserable, angry, depressed, doped-up-on-Prozac lot you will never find. The vast majority of women are infected with either HPV or Genital Herpes. I challenge you to find more than a tiny handful of women who haven’t had an abnormal Pap smear as a result of HPV. They are increasingly RARE!
Women can’t keep any relationship, much less a marraige, together for any length of time. The grass is alwyas greener on the other side. They have completely rebelled against the plan of the Almighty, and they are under His judgement. If I am bitter, then I’m sure the Old Testament prophets received similar accusations when they tried to warn the unrepentant Jews just before the judgement of God fell on them. As with women, they pretty much never listened. Tough, I say.
“But there are some decent women!” you might cry. Reeeeally? Where have they been while men have been maligned for these last several decades? Sitting smugly by the sidelines reaping the benefits of anti-male discrimination in the workplace and in the divorce courts. No, I’m afraid I’ve gotta’ go with God on this one.
“I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all.” The Word of God settles the issue- that is, if you actually believe the Word of God.
Chris,
Come on over and sign up at this forum:
http://www.invisionplus.net/forums/index.php?mforum=ct4m&act=idx
(Tell them where you came from). I want to talk to you, man.
Thank you kindly, but I’ll likely pass. My views on women are, to say the least, too extreme for virtually anyone I have met. I regularly read forums of the type you recommend, but tend to avoid actively participating in them any more. For the most part, I have given up hope that all but a tiny handful of men will wake up from their foolish dream-like state of infatuation with women- to their own destruction.
I have never had any hope for women at all.
I totally agree with how women have just stood by and watched men get bashed for decades, why? I believe it’s because they benefit from all this bashing, unequal court system, society in general. It’s borderline crazy how women “can’t” see the bashing, unequal court systems etc. going on right in front of them; however, she can spot a sale a mile away. Hmm!
Ask a woman sign a pre-nup and get a glimpse into what she’ll be like when she files for that “no-fault” divorce. Stay away from marriage and keep everything you worked for, and make her actually work!
Not bitter but concerned.
We’ve got to go back to the Garden to see the initial impact of woman on man. Essentially, from the beginning, a woman is the one thing that seperates man from God. I believe nothing else can ruin a man quite so thoroughly as a woman working in league with Satan. Sadly, as the Bible shows us, woman has been in a partnership with Satan from the beginning. I’m not saying that every woman consciously acts in a manner to destroy the man she is with (although many, many do) but it is apparently the natural bent of woman is to ally herself with evil, and this is especially evident today with the almost universal support women give to abortion and gay rights.
Paul was certainly right when he told men they were better off staying single, and this is one thing I preach constantly. This is probably why few women care to hear my preaching, as my ministry is geared towards men.
Yeah, I gotta agree with what I’m hearing. I know so many DIVORCED women in my church who dumped their husbands for less than Biblical reasons, and they’re all on the warpath looking for another sucker to support them. What is this about? Have they never read the Bible that pretty much tells you that you get married once, and barring adultery, you STAY married. Anything else is adultery. I think I would stand a better chance finding a moral woman in a Mosque.
After being married three years, I gave up on marraige when my wife announced she wanted to “explore her sexuality” with a girlfriend of hers that she met in our youth ministry at church. She wanted to stay married in the process of “finding herself”. She attempted to use the fact that the Old Testament never condems or even mentions female homosexuality as justification for her infidelity. So, we’re seperated while she “finds herself”. I don’t know if we’re getting back together or not.
I can’t count the number of women who try and hit on me knowing that I’m still married, and it’s amazing how many of them are bisexual, and two of them attend my church. I give up! I should have listened to my father who told me to never get married after my mother committed adultery, destroying their marraige. My older sister did pretty much the same thing as my Mom.
Proverbs and Ecclesiastes tell it like it is. Ain’t no good women nowhere.
Like most Christian guys, I fell for the notion of marrying a “good Christian” woman, only to wind up divorced from an obese adultress that I ended up paying over half my take-home pay. She preached Jesus loudly, and was just as loud when she decided to divorce me. Halleluia. Yeah, right. Don’t fall for the marital rip-off being peddled by the churches. They don’t bother to tell guys that marraige sucks, no matter who you marry. Women are women, and that isn’t a good thing.
As a divorced man, I completely sympathize with your sentiments. I’m dating a Christian girl. After three years of dating she still insists that a woman is entitled to a divorce if she isn’t “in love” anymore. Should I run? hahahahah
I guess women never change. It’s been the same since the Garden. Only these days women rule over the men. So much for feminism. The problem with Evangelicalism is that the Bible isn’t really the final word. Mostly Evangelicals accomodate their theology to the popular culture with a bit of Scripture thrown in. It’s only a matter of time before liberalism takes over the Evangelical churches.
Charlie
No, women don’t change. Or do they? Yeah, we have to make provision for those sweet gals who change for the WORSE, which is just about all of them.
Holy Matrimony? Oh, been there, done that. Good Christian girl. Neither she nor her parents told me about her Borderline Personality Disorder, nor did they tell me of her two-year stint as a lesbian while attending a Christian college, nor did they tell me of her Genital Herpes, nor did they tell me of her Genital Warts, nor did they tell me she is frigid, nor did they tell me of her explosive temper, nor did they tell me of her violent fits, nor did they tell me of her fainting spells when she gets angry, nor did they tell me of the fact that she can’t get pregnant, nor did they tell me of the fact that she was in debt for over $100,000 when we got married, which became my debt.
BUT, they did tell me she was a good Christian girl. That made it all better.
NOT.
I divorced this insane woman two years ago, and I’m still paying off her debts and both of our attorney’s fees. Would I get married again? Not a chance. Would I attend any church that advocates marraige? Not a chance. Do I consider myself a Christian any more? Not a chance.
From the beginning, I was alone in this battle. I’m now financially broke, infected with HPV and Herpes, and shattered emotionally.
I’m 28 years old.
Thank you Jesus.
I’ve been a Christian all of my life, and married a girl from my Assemblies of God congregation three years ago. The night of our wedding, she told me she hated sex (how would she know) and just wanted me to get it over with. She was NOT a virgin despite what she had told me. I spent the next 18 months living with a zealous harpy who nagged and complained about everything she could find. She quickly gained over 100 pounds, and I’m sitting here divorced with one kid paying child support to a creature that can speak in tongues and spew out Biblical verses with a vengeance, but ignores everything the Word of God has to say about obeying a husband.
What has happened to the church? I thought you could go there and find a nice, Christian girl to spend your life with? I should have listened to the Apostle Paul when he said it’s better to stay single.
Add one more name to the “marraige strike”.
I’m Catholic, and while my wife doesn’t cheat, she is the meanest women this side of Andrea Dworkin. I wish she would cheat, so I could get rid of her. The church doesn’t allow for divorce unless adultery happens, but hey, my wife is so big, it’s just not likely she could find someone so desperate to try her on for size, and brother, has she got a lot of size!
Would I get married again? Gee. let me think.
Uh, NO!
Wow! I thought I was the only Bible-believing fellow who was having trouble. I can’t believe I found this site. I have been married to a Christian woman for the last ten years, and it has been ten years of hell. If marraige to her is a glimpse into a life in a lake of fire, then you guys had better repent! I think maybe God made marraige to cause us to accept Jesus so we could see what was waiting for us in hell if we didn’t repent!
From the night of our sexless honeymoon, it has been the most depressing nightmare imagineable. Sex is MISERABLE, and rare. She makes me feel so guilty for wanting sex, that I don’t even try anymore. She tells me that a Christian man shouldn’t be “like that”.
I have two children who are about as dysfunctional as you can get and there isn’t anything I can do. I work like a dog to support my wife who hates me, and all of my time off is spent in church where my wife surrounds herself with other like-minded shrews. I thought that by staying true to my faith, I would have a better chance of having a happy marraige in Christ, but it hasn’t happened.
I don’t believe in divorce, but I look to the future and it’s so bleak. I can’t imagine what it’s going to be like in ten years or even twenty. I’m only 32 years old, and I’m married to the daughter of Satan, who now weighs over 300 pounds!
I’m treated like a stranger by my family, and have no time alone to myself. No money. No freedom. No life apart from two kids who don’t like me, and a wife who just plain hates me. I’m not saying I’m perfect, but what did I do to deserve this? I married in the church only to have it blow up in my face. I just don’t understand. Is God angry with me? Why have I been cursed this way?
Oh, well. No one is listening, and no one cares, but I had to put my feelings into print even though no one will probably ever read them. If a young man does happen to read what I have written, I can only offer a bit of advice. Don’t listen to the people in your church who tell you to get married. They won’t be there for you when it all falls apart. It just isn’t worth it. Stay single and be like Paul.
And Jesus.
I’m an assisstant pastor at a Foursquare Church, and I have to concur with at least some of the remarks I have read above. The moral state of so many of the women in our congregation is deplorable. I had no idea of the severity of the problem when I entered the ministry, and it’s been a rude awakening to see that today’s Christian woman is a far cry from those found in the Word of God.
I have counseled dozens of women all bent on divorcing their husbands for unbiblical reasons, and without exception, they have been unhappy with me when I have told them that they are sinning horribly by wanting to end their marraiges for any reason than unrepentant adultery. In almost every case, these women either seperated from their husbands, or divorced them.
I have to conclude that either the church has been infiltrated with some truly demonic women, or possibly, just possibly, the warnings in Ecclesiastes, as mentioned above, are accurate. Maybe there are no decent women anymore. I am married, and yes, my wife is in almost total rebellion.
I can echo the comments of so many others by counseling any young Christian man to never entertain the idea of marraige, even in the church. There is a wicked spirit of rebellion in western women, and the church is no refuge.
Wow, ya’ll need to get together over some good drinks and cigars or something.
Don’t blame Jesus or “Christianity” (or at least what is has become for the most part in the US). The zealously religious will go out of their way to bring you over to their “dark side” no matter what brand. I’ve found a church home that (so far) doesn’t seem to emphasize herding young men into marriage, or consider it sin to stay single.
I’ve been married over 20 years, but it has been tough, and I’ve thought many of the same things expressed here from time to time, except I guess my wife is not all that bad compared to some of the horror stories I’m reading here. I think I actually appreciate her more now, lol.
Peace,
YB
Actually men remaining single would be the best thing to happen to women and feminism. Women who could not find a husband would have to work and discover the discrimination that exists in the workplace. They would finally see how they are routinely passed over for promotions for a guy with less brains and experience than they. They would finally see how that making a lower salary than a man, for the same work (actually the women is probably working harder)is degrading.
Please men, don’t marry so that finally sexism can be eradicated.
Zowie! Imagine my surprise when I found out that women in my church are just about as nasty as many of the women I left behind. Not all, that’s for sure, but a heck of a lot. They need to interview people before they let them go to church. Most of the single women in my church are all DIVORCED in spite of the Bible condemning divorce.
I read all of the articles here, and I’m sure glad I found this place. It’s so true and accurate. Like the other men above have said, women are women, and they all have a lying nature. Maybe there are exceptions, but they should come out of hiding.
I’m really blown away at the number of women who have divorced husbands, and are trying to find new victims. I’ve even had a few try and go to bed with me. It doesn’t affect my faith, as some of the guys here, but it makes me realize that women seem to have one purpose in life, and that is to destroy men. It sounds weird, and maybe I’m really off base, but I’d be really happy if someone could prove me wrong. I feel so paranoid sometimes, but unless I find women aren’t as rotten as they appear to be, I’m going to have to go on the assumption that all of these older guys warning about the dangers of marraige aren’t wrong after all.
Great article!
-Dave
http://www.squidoo.com/online-christian-dating-services/
I am so glad I found this article. IT IS SPOT ON! I am staying married so I can enjoy raising my kids and then after the youngest is somewhere between 16 and 18 it is time for a well earned divorce. And, as the mother of my children, I am more than happy to provide her half or more of the proceeds of our union and launch her into the harsh business world with my respect. I will never speak ill of her and I will never marry again. YOU HAVE TO MARRY, gentlemen, if you want to have any chance of truly raising your children. After that, just as you retire from a career, so you must retire from marriage. The date women, treat them with respect and romance for 6-8 month intervals, break it off before you start fooling yourself that perhaps this woman will continue to have sex with you after marriage, and move on to the next. Both you and the women will be happier in the long run. Gentlemen, good luck to us all.
Outstanding. This puts into words a lot of the frustrations I’ve experienced with churches I’ve attended over the past few years. The good thing is, the “secret” is getting out. If my discussions with my contemporaries are any indication, more and more men are getting the memo that marriage is a huge risk and, much more often than not, a sucker bet in our culture. I’m convinced that things will have to change for the better eventually. The only question is, can a society with such a crumbled moral and (true) religious foundation as ours hold out long enough for that change to come?
The horror stories in these here comments sure are alarming though. Praise God for bachelorhood!
If your Church (ANY church) stands in the way of your freedom, then you must abandon that church altogether.
Wow, there are alot of stones being thrown over here. Sounds like alot of you have been burned (and this especially goes to Christopher in OR, even though his post was years ago). Still, for anyone still reading, I wanted to update this discussion.
No wonder you men are all so angry. You all have good reason to feel resentment towards “women”. I am sure it has been very difficult for you in relationships. Yes, we are sinful. Yes, I can tell you all have had very difficult marriages, and possibly, many of the female relationships in your life have been very unfulfilling. Much of what you say about women is true. We are, from the get-go, in-line with the devil. The whole lot of us, we have sinned, terribly. we deserve to die both a physical, and spiritual death at the hand of God. But, guess what? There is no condmenation for those who are truly repentant in the Blood of Jesus Christ. There is no condemnation. Guess what else? Sounds like alot of stones being thrown around here. What about you? What about the log in your eye, brothers? Every day we live under each others mercy, just like we live under the mercy of God. You have been burned by my sex. That should not have happened to you. That was wrong. It is wrong – as it is still ongoing. But, it takes two to tango. What was your role in your failing marriage? Women are sinful creatures. well, so are men. Marriage is a relationship between two sinful people. But, it is also a gift, with the right person, if we are willing. we’re all in this together. B/c we are Christians it means we are responsible to be even more merciful. we live every day under the mercy of each other, just like we live every day under the mercy of God. we don’t have to forget, but we do have to forgive. Move on. So don’t marry. But, don’t be afraid to let your heart love again.If you close your heart to love, you will miss out on the greatest love affair of all – that of you and your God.
Anonymous Female
USA
Wow. I’m a never married lady who is just trying to do things God’s way. I’ve been searching for months – maybe even years – for the reason why God has kept me single, and your site has now shown me. I didn’t know that this was how American Christian men felt about women, but now I see. I will finish school, go full force now into missions, as I’ve been preparing to do, and not look back on the possibility of family or husband. I have seen lots of loving, supportive, Godly relationships among my leadership, but always thought that wouldn’t be a possibility for me. Now I’m convinced – I don’t want to be hated – I don’t want to hate. After reading your article, it will be hard for me to let any brother in, wondering if he’s smiling in my face while shaking my hand, but thinking just like you; all the more reason to guard my heart in the one place that should be a sanctuary for healing people. I just want to see God’s Kingdom expanded and be conformed to His likeness… now I see I can better do that alone. The older I get, the greater the risk of marrying someone who hates marriage and women so deeply is just too great. You, on the other hand, may very well grow in Christ, learn to trust, and end up happily married like the beautiful model of Christ and His Bride. That’s quite some irony. My prayers are with you.